Source Engine License

[Neico]

I got this idea since a while now (probably since L4D and L4D2 where you could notice that Valve is ignoring that Mod's need a up2date engine)
And as you can see on Garry's Mod, having full access to the engine does have some advantages...

So to my point: What would you be willing to spend (meaning money I guess...) IF OC WOULD decide to switch over and get a license for the Source Engine?

I'm just curious how much we would get together with this appointment (as I might ask our "Valve Contact" about it at some point)

As for me, I would spend a lot depending on the support... (It's not worth it if there isn't enough support for that step)

[Gary]

If we even could... don't engines often cost tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Garry likely didn't have to pay a large amount, as Valve makes money off Garry's Mod.

If you can get it though, I'm all for it but I sadly have no money to donate to it.

[fug4life]

Hundreds of thousands.

Forget it, even if you raised the cash, the assets we have probably wouldn't be able to use.

Forget garry's mod, he got lucky, right time at the right place, rigth type of mod. Valve were desperate to show case source modding at the time and his was the only thing original enough at the time, shame it was just code and one map, I would of preferd Valve waited a couple of months and hired the dystopia team

The whole point of modding is working with what you have, you're experiencing the same frustrations, just about every mod team experiences!

You really need to learn to live with some bugs (I don't think I've played a mod or a full retail game that isn't bug free), or get involved with other coders from other mods to share knowledge and experiences.

Just the way it is.

Edit: Also investing money into a six year old engine is a bad idea (modified or not).

I dont mean to be harsh, but the mod needs to keep its feet on the ground and see its self for what it is and the role it can play in the hl2 mod scene, yes fix those old bugs if you can, and if they aren't show stoppers, move on to adding new features! If there were bugs that crippled the mod, i.e you couldnt run a stable server or client game, then I'd say call it a day your fighting a losing battle. But you aren't it stable enough to have out there for people to enjoy the mod for what it is.

[Neico]

... it's not like that I don't know that, but you seem to miss the point of my post... maybe I should highlight the important part more...

[fug4life]

highlight all you want, I dont want to upset you Neico that wasn't my intention.

But why theorise about such an unlikely idea (almost ludicrous). <resists temptation to use {size=300}{highlight=#ff0000}{/highlight}{/size}>

And to answer you question, I wouldn't invest a single penny into such a doomed endeavor.

Please, dont get upset, I have a huge amount of respect for you Neico, I'm impressed with the work you do behind the scenes, I smile when I look at bug tracker and see your fixes.
Its just a couple of times you've come out with a couple of radical ideas, that normally mean work on the mod would probably have to start from scratch.

I think anyone who starts a mod today onwards is crazy, its like all those hl1 mods that were started late towards the end of the hl1 engine, then they get released when hl2 is in full swing and the hl1 scene is long forgotten. well 6 years on the same applies today. by the time anything is released hl2 will be long forgotten.

Having said that if you already have a mod released in beta, its been around for a few years always improving, players know about it, and there is always a constant influx of new players wanting to explore the mod. Then you have something worth holding onto and working on to improve!

^ And that last paragraph is exactly what you guys have!

[Shana]

Fug pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

[fug4life]

I went a bit ott, I was having a bad morning.

I just care about this lil jewel of a mod you guys work on, I'm not saying I'm not the only one who cares, I know we all do.
I guess I panic at the thought of any major overhaul or rebuild of stuff (steamworks excluded, do what you have to do).
I'd hope by all the ideas I've been recently suggesting you guys can also see I'm all for change, just subtle changes!

So instead of screaming, I'll try to explain things a bit more rationally.

I don't know what you guys hope to aspire to in the future, being a professional game developer may just be on that list, I'll wish anyone the best of luck!
I like to look at gaming trends, and especially Valve as a company, I've kept a keen eye on their decision making regarding the types of games they make and the people they've choosen to hire\projects taken under their wings.

When robin walker was hired he was kicking arse, because while some guys were just touching base on the concept of going from deathmatch games to teamdeath and capture the flag games. He'd already done that and went that step further with class based and multiple objective based teamplay.

Then comes counterstrike, one word crack! I was hooked for many years!

Day of defeat, was just a case of good timing IMO, Medal of Honor was the first to jump onto the saving private ryan band wagon (alright hidden&dangerous & commandos were already out before amongst others, but none were dedicated FPS action shooters). And the day of defeat team hit gold as Valve could see the huge demand there was for ww2 shooters, other game devs were pumping out these games at a fair rate, Valve wouldn't want to loose to many players to all these other games.

Richocet, I dont know what happened there, I guess they were hugely optimistic, the whole cyberpunk tron thing was sort of kicking of, but there was no place for it on the ageing hl1 engine.

Gmod, it just took that goofing around aspect we all used to do during playing games with others and struck gold. It was something that had a 'cool' factor and wasn't the standard Vs gameplay mods they'd been showcasing/hiring.

What I'm trying to say is Valve like to follow trends, they really pay attention to what players are playing, both in games and in mods made by them or not.

So how was it that Valve were so late IMO to jump on the co-op bandwagon (L4D & L4D2, Portal2)
I mean I was co-op'ing in Rainbow6 & RogueSpear and operationflashpoint long before Sven co-op. (hell playing something like an arcade machine for two player can be considered co-op *fug loved Double Dragon & Operation Thunderbolt*).
Personally Valve heard all the cries for co-op the same cries that people made about HL1 flowed over to hl2. And I think they were also surprised how many people still played sven co-op well into the early years of the hl2 engine, even still today servers are up people play.
So Valve finally jumps on the bandwagon horay L4D (I still need to buy).

Also people were tiring of Vs gameplay.

Now you guys have a mod that is based considerably on just about everything Half-life related, the same Half-life related stuff that has made them millions! you think they are going to give others the potential to cash on that gravy train easily? I mean its there baby!

because I dont think they will believe you when you approach them to say you want a license for further engine access. You pay for a license your paying for the right to sell a game using the source engine, I have no idea what the fee would be for a license that actually uses assests from the Halflife series. I should think its un calculable when processed through every computer in the world (jk).

Now I be could wrong about all this, Valve could look at it the other way and want to cash in on what you guys have? I'd love it if they did, but they didn't do it with synergy (understandably). also given the fact L4D1&2 + Portal are in exsistence I think they'd rather invest time and money in those whilst keeping hl sp the way its always been.

At the moment this mod is giving the fans what they want and have always wanted + a whole lot more, be the best mod you can be. I think this mod can achieve alot of fame and glory (Its already a winner in my book). But if your looking to make money, idk, I dont think it'll pay in that way, though thata not to say that anyone of you guys wouldnt get talent spotted, I'm saying this mod will most likely not be sold via Valve.

Steamworks is a much suitable home for your mod.

I know what your thinking my imagination is running wild with all this talk of trying to sell the mod, but you set my mind running wild with talk of trying to aquire a license, and they are closely connected wild thoughts.

I'm done typing, I pray this mod goes to steamworks and beyond, who knows if you guys are still pumping out stuff come ep3 and beyond that, you might just catch their attention. What I'm saying here is, players will always want to co-op through hl games, and you have a mod geared up for it, look to the long term you never know you might not have to pay for a license Valve might just take notice of a mod that allows all of the halflife series to be played co-op on the latest versions of their engine.

[DisConnected]

Well, we all know that the HL2 Source engine is dying, but think about it: When do you think Half Life 3 is going to be released (if it is, since I doubt that Valve really care about Half Life as much as they used to years before), if we haven't even had a hint that Episode 3 is even half done. Unless the Episode 3 engine is almost as good as the Black Ops engine, I'm not sure if we want to say that the HL2 version of the Source Engine is going to die soon.

I think that this mod needs more maps like diving/harvest/paysan, those unique ones. Just to seperate it from those other CO-OP games/mods.

[Shana]

as good as the Black Ops engine

Thanks for the laugh.

[fug4life]

Well, we all know that the HL2 Source engine is dying, but think about it: When do you think Half Life 3 is going to be released (if it is, since I doubt that Valve really care about Half Life as much as they used to years before), if we haven't even had a hint that Episode 3 is even half done. Unless the Episode 3 engine is almost as good as the Black Ops engine, I'm not sure if we want to say that the HL2 version of the Source Engine is going to die soon.

I think that this mod needs more maps like diving/harvest/paysan, those unique ones. Just to seperate it from those other CO-OP games/mods.

I try not to speculate too much about the next instalment of Half-Life, though unless they go bankrupt, its safe to say there will be another in some form. Most likely still on the source engine, most likely a newer version of the engine, maybe it'll be so radically changed it'll be impossible for oc to mod it, who knows. Given there past movements engine updates can mean trouble for some mods.
Besides I only really played the last episodes of Half-life through oc co-op, so I'm praying more than most!

Edit: And yes we need more maps, I'm not too fussed on the style of map, though seperating from action co-op and rts co-op, is not a good idea (I like action most). Keeping several high quality differing styles of map is a good idea.

Also; I saw Links pictures of Black Ops, and my reaction was that it looks better on the television advert than his pictures (the best highlights crammed into a 60 second advert).

[Datastream]

Tl;dr most of it but I did read some of fugs posts. The only thing I can think of is a question: "What advantage does gmod have now?" Seriously, it has a lot of bugs. The only upside to it is that they have stable mounting. That's the only thing OC would gain. And you would just replace old bugs with new ones.

P.S.: While writing this I came up with an idea. What if we had that menu map in the background but direct it to oc_lobby as a fix for Static ATI. Automatically starts a listen server basically so you don't have to. Quite genius.

[fug4life]

Background maps have been disscussed before, and generally people dont want them, I havent actually tested my background map since 1.35 or tried to make a different one (I can't remember if mine mounted ep2 or not, I mean the actual background map) not whats mounted after.

What I'm saying is I should test this further by making a non-mounted backgroundmap as I think mine was mounted. Also I'm not sure if you can remove the hud correctly, though i know abit mor eon this subject now, maybe I can get around it.

I've learned to live with ATI issues (played oc now on 4 pcs, 3 with ati and one with nvidia), Nvida users probably wouldnt want their game load to be any slower especially if there mod folder has 9000 playermodels. Though if the background map is simple its still an idea to consider.

When I get time I'll report back about background maps and mounting, I need to check all angles and possibilities with the map and how it mounts if at'all.

[Datastream]

That's what I'm saying. Give it as a static ati fix instead of what is done now. As in: Make it an option in the menu.

Besides, it can easily be a black box as the map with the camera within it. Doesn't have to be special, all it has to do is auto fix by automatically starting a listen server. And if the map is small it wouldn't matter much. And I don't think anyone would care about the HUD as long as it's an easy fix, right?

[Shana]

Background maps are fully possible in 1.35 if i remember correctly.

[fug4life]

Will test later tonight.