oc_holdthefort

[fug4life]

So here are my thoughts, I only really had a quick think about it, but well they are ideas.

So I was thinking how awesome this map is and how it could still be a hit even as a relatively short co-op mission.

The start would have a barricade of some sort at the tunnel entrance from rebel spawn that only the jalopy can break forcing players to go through the mine first to access the map (barricade would be something similar to that currently at base main entrance).

Jalopy cannot be driven until a gas/fuel can is found and returned to the jalopy, which would be found in 1/16 places at the otherside of the base/map (as far as possible from spawn) also the main base second/back door/entrance (furthest from spawn will be closed permentaly, with a strong metal reinforced unbreakable door).

So to get to the gas can you are forced through the mines (looks like they either already are or can be hint brushed away from the rest of the map). So the mines is a good place for the first battle encounter, and I'd recommend zombies,fast,poision and zombines <- a mixture of all to be placed lying about in the main area of the mine (the main vis_leaf that is hinted away from the rest of the map) could even have them laying down on scripted sequences so as you get near them they stand up.

Hopefully most of the zombies will be dead before the players can make it through the mine, if not once all players exited the mine you could lay the zombies that are still alive back down with a ssequence just to conserve what npcs are moving about in the map.

So out into the main area, so players will have to go from the mine south all the way around the base to find the fuel can (to get the jalopy up and running and consequently access the main base eventually.

Npc placement out side the base really you only need npcs to occupy the battlements, four priority ones would be maning all four of the machine gun turrets. then I'd probably have another 4 snipers.
Also the combine mortar cannon (seen in brokenescape2a) is always nice to have where you have your mortar emplacement, so if players hang around too much or venture somewhere you dont want it'll rain down ion's from above.
Basically to make moving around the map as tough as possible. I'd have very little other combine outside whilst players are searching for gas can. Hopefully if the only weapon the player has is a pistol then the npcs should be firmly rooted for quite sometime. That's a total of 8 things going on, if the npcs die then perhaps a maker can replace them from time to time (If you have room fps wise for more other combine one or two normal combines with smg1s & with ability to throw grandes then even better). Also I like the idea of using the antlion thumper to get the antlions attacking you/whatever combine are about. Also bugbait would be a cool weapon to find so once assaulting into the base players if so wish can take the antlions into the bas, perhaps bugbait could be given once inside the outside base area or if map is too tough just bugbait from the beginning and have the antlions friendly to players with an env_global.

Once players gain access to the base you can upon the door breaking, either kill the mg's (theory is they are replaced by close combat weaponed npcs given their base is compromised) and stop their npc makers from making anymore of those two classes. Whilst allowing new classes to spawn in the base. But still shotgun soldiers and smg1 combine mainly. Could have one hunter aswell or save that for seperate encounter inside the base.

Base doors I thought would be cool to have buttons that require hacking? player must hold a button 30 seconds, and I'd add vent shafts near to those doors from where manhacks would spawn whilst the door computer is being hacked. once open stop hacks spawning. (so here players have to have bodyguards from other players whilst they hack). A bit like in co-op_wardogs.

Only combine elite inside the base and with shotgun or ar2 only. But I'd use the model inwhich they dont fire the ar2 alt fire. then you can have hunters inside too along with the elites, also some turrets that need to be taken down, more of the floor turret, ground turrets and ceiling turrets.

Then I'd use romka's female combine assassins and have them use the elite model that does fire the ar2 alt fire.

And I suppose at the end, no-one has tried getting an advisor into the game yet maybe they could be worked into the map. you could have it spin metal around, if not have a nice assassin hunter finale.

Oh and give the map 2-3 lives for player. No bonus lives.

So basically its just an awesome combine themed ep2 map with tough assault gameplay. weapons come available at stages through out the map starting from the weakest.

I think you could have a fairly good map just using those said npcs (no need for gunships,striders or heli's).

I think the map can have npcs you just gotta put some thought on what you want alive in the map where and at what time.

Oh and add a mine laying strider camera thingy outside when players are searching for fuel or/and driving jalopy<---seriously uder used npc in obsidian.

[Datastream]

How come I have never seen this map in any server? Why not release a alpha, or beta? D:

When is it gonna be out? Will it ever get finished? Damn I'm excited... This looks like an awesome map!

[fug4life]

I'd say the map is 20% away from being a top notch map! (80% complete I mean )

The alpha was out briefly, the video is worth looking at...

And yes its awesome!

[shiftey]

I actually really like your idea. When I'm not busy I'll give a shot at placing some NPCs. My main concern is the low fps most people will get. It's such a wide open map and when I started optimizing I got really frustrated. So I probably won't optimize it much more.

I like your idea regarding making the player have to trek around the base to get the gas. I think a good spot would be at the tunnel on the east (farthest possible point). That area where the tunnel collapsed can have a few gas cans next to the APC. And some combine can ambush from the gate at the bottom (which was going to be the insertion point for the combine team).

Also, if I make the antlion tunnel in the mines curve upward, I can make it a spawnpoint for antlions which would add a nice fight sequence in the mines.

I'm not sure that bugbait will work. As far as I know, the bugbait is highly buggy (you can laugh) in OC. If anybody has figured out a way to fix it or make it work, please explain and I'd love to add it.

Can you send me those files for the elite model? I don't have them nor know where to find them.

But your post gave me hope. I'll make an effort to see if it will work out as soon as I have the time. I have a midterm and some papers coming up next week so I can't do anything yet.

[Shana]

How is the bugbait buggy? it works perfectly fine for me.

[shiftey]

With multiple players using bugbait it doesn't work right. Or is it fixed?

Edit: On further thought about making the map co-op: I'll change the name to oc_escape_c17_3. It may confuse people who play it, but that's the name I meant to give this map in it's coop form. You have to navigate the innards of this base during oc_undersiege_2 and get to defend it during oc_undersiege_3. At least that was my plan. I made oc_undersiege_1 but its so crappy in comparison to my current skills I'd rather redo it completely before releasing the old one.

- The level design for oc_holdthefort will be featured in a much larger co-op map series I have been working on for the past 2 years. In the "HL2-shiftey universe" timeline, oc_holdthefort is toward the end. oc_escape_c17 -> oc_undersiege -> oc_holdthefort

Completely forgot about those plans...

[fug4life]

Bugbait works, though can be chaotic if several players are using at once but generally the antlions will go to where the enemies are anyway. I have bugbait in my scientist hunt map (see my avatar). I actually played the hl2 coast and prison maps the other day, and found most players once inside the prison would switch to weapons rather than spamming bugbait, and I managed to use bugbait relatively easy whilst inside.

But if you dont want it to be spammed just have one player pick it up whilst out side the base. So only one player gets to direct. Once in the base if you so wish you can allow player to have as bugbait works alot better in relatively close quarters.

As for the elite model, basically in your oc folder you should have a combine 'super soldier' as well as a 'combine elite' One is from hl2 and one is from Obsidian. If I'm right only one will fire ar2 alt fire, I'd have to check which.

And as for the assassin idea I'm using Romka's combine assassin as a combine elite/super which ever fires the ar2 balls.

As for optimisation, have you considered sharing the work load? I'd be enthusiastic to go through adding prop fades and stuff if your too lazy.
Or even I could give you a rough demo of what I think.

I think map sharing is something we should consider more within the community, there must be people like me who think they have a map that others are welcome to work on, and sometimes i see others maps and think I'd love to have a go at helping finish it up or w/e.

Not for credit or anything/ my priority focus as always with obsidian is seeing more maps out there to play.

w/e I hope you find the conviction to make something of this already grand map.

[shiftey]

As for optimisation, have you considered sharing the work load? I'd be enthusiastic to go through adding prop fades and stuff if your too lazy.
Or even I could give you a rough demo of what I think.

I think map sharing is something we should consider more within the community, there must be people like me who think they have a map that others are welcome to work on, and sometimes i see others maps and think I'd love to have a go at helping finish it up or w/e.

I'd have no problem giving you the vmf. I know you won't exploit my trust and I've been wanting to inter-share map projects for a while.

[fug4life]

Thanks, I appreciate the trust. Well I'm more than happy to inspect see if I can optimise it more, I can send you progress via pm's. Then maybe I could implement some co-op ideas for your inspection.